[x3d-public] X3D agenda 4 DEC 2020: resolving X3D4 endgame issues

Fri Dec 4 00:02:15 PST 2020

Specifically, it would be cool to have one example where an .x3d file
inlines a a glTF file, and we see if X3DOM and X_ITE handle the Inline
right in the context of X3DJSONLD (passes the Inline to the DOM layer
without checking for a Scene inside glTF files).

While I had toggled between handling the Inline myself and passing it on, I
am pretty firmly entrenched in passing the Inline onto the player/DOM
handler.

Thanks,

John

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:25 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Test examples of different uses of new Inline features welcome!
>
> Thanks!
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 11:14 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>> Big agenda but milestone deadline is looming and all issues are
>> familiar.  Thanks for all advance meeting preparation, we hope to proceed
>> rapidly.
>>
>> We now meet one hour later than before:  09-1000 Pacific time.
>>
>> [0.1] Web3D Teleconference Information
>>        https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>>
>> > Please use the following link for all Web3D Consortium Meetings.
>> >
>> > Join URL:
>> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
>>
>> Prior minutes:
>>
>> [0.2] [x3d-public] X3D working group minutes: scheduling, conference
>> quicklook, specification work planning, X3D4 finalization
>>
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-November/014002.html
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 1. X3D4 topics
>>
>> [1.0] X3D4
>>        https://www.web3D.org/x3d4
>>
>> Changes to X3D4 specification on members-only github are also being
>> refreshed daily at
>>
>> [1.1] X3D4 Working Draft 3
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/
>>
>> Corresponding pristine text in preparation for Web3D Consortium member
>> ballot is currently being autogenerated along with a log of both
>> corrections and remaining issues.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> a. MIDI 2.0 and Web Midi accepted. Audio and sound changes complete,
>> checked in.
>>
>> [2] [x3d-public] X3D4 Sound Component and MIDI 2.0 review: accepted for
>> ballot
>>
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014188.html
>>
>> Many thanks for many reviews and multiple endorsements.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> b. Continued review and editing of prose for clarity in Lighting and
>> Shape components, with focus on glTF support.
>>
>> [3] Various comments reading X3Dv4 current working draft (WD3 in GitHub
>> repository)
>>
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014189.html
>>
>> No problems noted but more editing work needed.  Michalis has the baton
>> for some technical clarifications, then Dick and Don will continue working
>> on prose phrasing to meet ISO editorial conventions.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> c.  Gamma correction
>>
>> Of note in this long-running issue:
>> - no single entity (hardware, software, browser, author) can yet drive to
>> a cross-platform solution.
>> - stating accepted expectation (gamma correction is expected) might lead
>> to false sense of optimism.
>> - still complex but some further progress might be expected with XR
>> activity next year.
>>
>> and realization that there is something we can mostly control: rendering
>> screen to image, allowing visual checking/comparison and also unit
>> testing.  No requirement that all browsers look exactly the same -
>> rendering pipelines have some leeway - but at least we can test compare and
>> keep improving.  Especially useful with addition of physically based and
>> non-photorealistic (unlit) rendering.
>>
>> [4] [x3d-public] [...] Gamma Correction for X3D4 final draft
>>
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-November/014103.html
>>
>> summarized as
>>
>> > There are 2 spec choices below: acknowledging norms by simply stating
>> that gamma correction is typically expected,
>> > or else continuing to say nothing.
>>
>> Check consensus: adding no additional statement still seems most
>> pragmatic?
>>
>> ---
>>
>> d. Putting default duration bounds on url refresh activity
>>
>> Clearly we don't want a lot of unclosed 3D scenes and window frames
>> becoming zombie network loads (or even Denial Of Service DOS threats).
>>
>> [5] [x3d-public] X3D4 security-related field addition: X3DUrlObject
>> refreshTimeLimit
>>
>> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-November/014182.html
>>
>> with John Carlson's follow-on reply exploring rationale and examples
>> further.
>>
>> Recommendation: include this field (X3DUrlObject refreshTimeLimit) as a
>> prudent security precaution.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> e. References review requested
>>
>> [6.0] [x3d-public] X3D4 endgame review: normative references and
>> informative bibliography
>>        http:s//
>> web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-November/014122.html
>>
>> Note several replies that are not part of the thread per se.
>>
>> [6.1] X3D4 Architecture, Normative references
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/Part01/references.html
>>
>> [6.2] X3D4 Architecture, (Informative) bibliography
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/Part01/bibliography.html
>>
>> Continuing review welcome, thanks for several improvements received.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> f. ExternalShape, ExternalGeometry?
>>
>> ExternalShape handled by Inline.
>>
>> [7.0] X3D4 9.4.2 Inline
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/Part01/components/networking.html#Inline
>>
>> What about ExternalGeometry for glTF models, is it needed?  Not finding
>> it in Mantis, wondering if there is no strong use case or maybe we've
>> dropped a ball.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> g. Event Utility node clarifications
>>
>> Thanks Andreas for remembering this long-overlooked issue.
>>
>> [8.0] [x3d-public] X3D4 draft nearing readiness for ballot; Mantis 519
>> Event utilities, ignoring set_boolean false events
>>
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-November/014185.html
>>
>> This applies to IntegerTrigger and TimeTrigger nodes, ignoring
>> set_boolean FALSE improves logical understanding and simplifies event
>> animation chains.
>>
>> Absent objections (none heard) will apply this straightforward change.
>> No problems with prior compatibility identified as a result of this logical
>> refinement.
>>
>> Review led Dick and I to also look at related issue
>>
>> [8.1] Mantis 1183, 30.4.6 IntegerTrigger - Ambiguous response when
>> integerKey field is reset
>>        https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1183
>>
>> > Suggested clarification to ensure consistent implementations and
>> expectations: append
>> > "Resetting the integerKey field generates a corresponding integerKey
>> field output event."
>>
>> also related:
>>
>> [8.2] Mantis 1182: 30.4.3 BooleanToggle - Ambiguous response when toggle
>> field is reset
>>        https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1182
>>
>> > "Resetting the toggle field generates a corresponding toggle field
>> output event."
>>
>> Absent objections, we plan to apply all of these related simple/sensible
>> clarifications to X3D4 specification prose.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> h. HTML guidelines
>>
>> Draft still pending.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> i. Field name consistency
>>
>> The possibility of synonym names for inconsistently named X3D3 fields
>> looks to provide an excellent opportunity to regularize X3D4 scene graph
>> for new authors, HTML5 X3D models, etc. without unintended loss of
>> backwards compatibility.
>>
>> [8.0] [x3d-public] X3D4 finalization endgame: Field naming reconciliation
>> as synonyms
>>
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-November/014125.html
>>
>> Agree with Andreas note that GeoLOD should not have a synonym field for
>> children since accessType is different.  Others appear feasible.
>>
>> This does not appear to be everyone's first preference, but does appear
>> to be feasible (i.e. "can live with it").
>>
>> Dick is preparing general prose regarding synonyms for section 4 Concepts.
>>
>> Attached please find screenshot of how specification format for affected
>> node interfaces might change.  We will update this draft during meeting to
>> match preferred form.
>>
>> [8.2] X3D4 32.4.2 CADFace
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/Part01/components/CADGeometry.html#CADFace
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 2. Specification release timing.
>>
>> Group discussion.
>>
>> Additional items welcome.  Are any other finals steps needed to be ready
>> to ship X3D4 for Web3D Consortium member ballot and Board of Directors
>> approval?
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>> --
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>  +1.831.656.2149
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
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