[x3d-public] X3D Scripting for X3DOM w/o reading standard
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Sat Dec 4 18:29:51 PST 2021
I will keep my draft email aside until it can be tested with an improved
x3d.py.
The main issue appears to be the difference between a hand-coded python
app and a JSON-based python dict, with difference between how SFVec3f
setter handles tuple versus list.
Good luck with testing/development!
I will try to flesh out the partial classes, preparing for integration
with the classes generated by the stylesheet. Hopefully, I will get to
full XML output with a single JSON file.
John
On 12/4/21 17:11, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) wrote:
>
> John, thanks for your note but again no complaints (ever) by me for
> your worthy efforts.
>
> Email motivation: when I post it is best effort for everyone in
> community (now and future) reading the archives. Avoiding confusion
> is important.
>
> Please stand by on further x3d.py commentary. Last weekend made good
> progress (as reported to you via phone Tuesday) and almost finished
> initial JSON export, now need to check a regression issue on VRML export.
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 4, 2021 2:08 PM
> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; Joseph D
> Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Cc:* X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D Scripting for X3DOM w/o reading standard
>
> I appreciate your confidence in me, but I feel that I would make a
> mess of it. Plus, if I can't read existing standards, I probably
> can't figure out how to improve them either.
>
> I have similar problems with videos, TV episodes, books, etc. I've
> been working on doing better with videos, but it seems that YouTube
> makes me angry now.
>
> For some reason, my ability to email people remains. I don't know if
> I comprehend things too well in emails.
>
> I feel it's best to stick with my strong points in bug finding,
> problem solving and creativity. I am not sure if there's a place for
> that in Web3D/X3D.
>
> I totally understand that X_ITE supports script <field>s, but I don't
> know if script <field>'s are required to be supported by the standard.
>
> I think the main sticking point is that HTML does not support script
> <field>'s, so neither does X3D4? But somehow, X_ITE supports
> <field>s in scripts, and does DOM as well, via Andreas' extension.
> It would seem that X3DOM could support scripts given some effort.
> When I tried, I ran up against <field>'s not being supported, so I
> bailed. But perhaps someone with a bit more persistence could get
> past that, IDK.
>
> Integrating Protos and Scripts still seems to be an unsolved problem
> in X3DOM? Is my effort the only one that actually has some modicum of
> success (with some of my own files)? If we start somewhere, should we
> start with my effort, or X_ITE? Or another path?
>
> I opened email to report a possible misunderstanding in x3d.py. I'll
> put that in another email.
>
> Thanks!
>
> John
>
> On 12/4/21 12:30, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) wrote:
>
> Hi John. You reasonably ask “Does the X3D4 standard eschew script
> <field>s? And instead offer "onclick()" events?”
>
> Ummm, why wonder ever again? Why not propose fixing X3D4 if
> unclear or incorrect? Together we are in charge of our own destiny.
>
> 1. X3D4 Architecture, Committee Draft CD1, Annex L HTML
> authoring guidelines
> 2. https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/htmlGuidelines.html
>
> The X3D4 guidelines are intended to complement HTML5. Building up
> behavior examples (like the rosetta-stone bouncing ball) that show
> HTML DOM being HTML DOM, and X3D being X3D, is a very good approach.
>
> Thanks for all scrutiny, demonstration, and possible
> improvements. Looking forward to steady continuing progress
> together as a community.
>
> p.s. Have fun with X3D4 and HTML5! 8)
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
> *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org>
> <mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> *On Behalf Of *John Carlson
> *Sent:* Friday, December 3, 2021 2:07 PM
> *To:* Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Cc:* X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D Scripting for X3DOM w/o reading
> standard
>
> For example, if we see this:
> https://www.kshell.com/pages/rosetta/rosetta_x3dom.html
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kshell.com%2Fpages%2Frosetta%2Frosetta_x3dom.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C3c69f0c7cc5f457ced0208d9b7728cbd%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637742525300096123%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wsa4aY%2B8UhE%2FnLTAKQdrOMSwiq5m6L4g6SkakyjGXxA%3D&reserved=0>
> copied from another email, we see that there are *no* script
> <field>s in the code.
>
> Does the X3D4 standard eschew script <field>s? And instead offer
> "onclick()" events?
>
> Thanks!
>
> John
>
> On 12/3/21 15:33, John Carlson wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2021, at 1:53 PM, Joseph D Williams
> <joedwil at earthlink.net> <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> 1. 2. What are the stumbling blocks to getting script
> fields into the event model?
>
> Hi John,
>
> Scripts are completely involved in the x3d sai event
> model. A script must receive an event to begin execution
> and then it is like an ’external’ in that when the script
> begins it essentially acts like a beginUpdate and when it
> completes it essentially gets an endUpdate and all outputs
> are sent with the same time stamp as kicked off the
> script. Think of it as script is like any other node that
> can receive and send events. Only exception is, I think,
> that a script directOut does not initiate a new cascade
>
> Part of the thing to do is try script fields in X3DOM and see
> if they work at all, and if they don’t, try to do a minimal
> amount of debugging to see what might be done.
>
> I do not recall if Roy’s work on this is available still or not.
>
> 2. 3. If scripts are transformed, how?
>
> If it is ECMAScript then what do you do? What can be done?
> Break it down into json like any other node? For some
> reason I hope not.
>
> Well, one could potentially replace field access with a node
> attribute util get or set method. But this can get really
> tricky, if not impossible to do in all cases. It would be
> better to implement script field routes, if possible. See
> above. If one could get script field routes into the HTML
> standard, much, much better…
>
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 30, 2021 11:40 AM
> *To: *X3D Graphics public mailing list
> <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *[x3d-public] X3D Scripting for X3DOM w/o
> reading standard
>
> Information needed:
>
> 1. Do scripts in proto bodies get copied?
>
> 2. What are the stumbling blocks to getting script fields
> into the event model?
>
> 3. If scripts are transformed, how?
>
> 4. What is the new event model for X3D4?
>
> John
>
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