[x3d-public] Production HAnim X3D JSON seems to still work
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Nov 1 15:51:10 PDT 2021
I'm getting super tired of this. Of course, I already had a working
.x3d example:
https://coderextreme.net/X3DJSONLD/src/main/html/x3djoeandjin.html
I got the LOA4 diamonds working in FreeWRL. Doesn't work in view3dscene.
What exactly did you want? A VRML validator?
John
On 11/1/21 17:45, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>
> This is fun and innovative and proves depth of x3d but not exactly
> what I really would like to see. Have the scene defined by and .x3d
> file. Then, for example, import the skeleton or geometries using json
> files, then serialize to x3d xml canonical. I think you have pretty
> much proven that json can have capabilities to serve as an encoding
> for x3d, but I don’t think json needs to be promoted as a prime
> transport syntax, like xml and Classic. More like gltf might serve for
> certain common components, mainly as a transport scheme that aligns
> with typical industry data packages.
>
> Thanks for all,
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, November 1, 2021 1:38 PM
> *To: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>; Brutzman,
> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org;
> hanim at web3d.org
> *Subject: *Production HAnim X3D JSON seems to still work
>
> I don't have any checked in code working, but the last production
> release seems to work:
>
> https://coderextreme.net/X3DJSONLD/src/main/html/joeandjin.html
>
> So if you have pressing work, I can get you a copy of the website.
>
> Sorry, I don't have releases, I got caught with Ajv not working on
> draft 2020-12. See attached image for production website.
>
> This is with X3DOM and X_ITE.
>
> John
>
> On 11/1/21 12:36, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>
> 1. get HAnim working
>
> Fine, how about looking at the joekick model? Or, the LOA4 in the
> current spec, Annex A
>
> 1.JSON is loaded through a URL on the web page.
>
> The encoding is not the issue since a typical scene may consume
> x3d xml x3dclassic, strings, binaries, compressed, encrypted, with
> standard and custom subtypes. This point is, _/if/_ the tool that
> creates and runs the x3d scene can produce the x3d text user code
> in canonical form, then it has to be xml or classic, right. And,
> ecma or java. The tool can export code or data however it wants
> including all or parts of its internal forms, but if the current
> user asks for canonical form or viewsource of an x3d scene, then
> the text must be 19776-n and 19977-n and I think would actually
> require the xml in order to get direct authortime validation.
>
> All Standards | Web3D Consortium <https://www.web3d.org/standards/all>
>
> I sent this to hanim because we are looking at the hanim models in
> the archive. The quick way to start with hanim is to pick an loa4
> because joints not animated are ignored.
>
> All Good,
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 31, 2021 10:41 PM
> *To: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>; Brutzman,
> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
> Joe, there are some ways of loading JSON through the runtime in
> X3DOM (which uses JSONParser.js), but typically, JSON is loaded
> through a URL on the web page. I don't want to overburden my
> customers by forcing them to drop into JavaScript. There's also
> a different interface for X_ITE as well, and also one can load
> JSON through a URL on the web page.
>
> I think there may still be some issues with HAnim, which need to
> be addressed (skeleton field). I will work with you to get HAnim
> working with X3DOM and X_ITE. I have many, may issues with Java
> code generated from JSON in X3DJSONLD package. Fixing those may
> help or hinder us from accomplishing our goals.
>
> Thanks!
>
> John
>
> On 10/31/21 20:45, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>
> Does anyone want to discuss SAI for building a scenegraph from
> X3DJSON? What approaches are out there?
>
> Just wondering, or waking up, why would there be a special SAI
> for use with json? All I thought I needed was a way to
> reliably import/export nodes and parameters ilnto a standard
> scenegraph using standard SAI interfaces.
>
> Sure, using external programming interfaces to build a scene
> by authoring or importing nodes and statements and structures
> is possible, but regardless the scenegraph is built from nodes
> and statements that may be emitted from and external and
> internal scripts activated when the scene is initialized using
> the spec SAI.
>
> At this point I still think of the json as a way to store some
> data and some organized way for import into the x3d scenegraph
> using the spec interfaces for external and external
> programming. Bite my lip, but why think of a scenegraph built
> entirely for json? How can I say no way, too verbose😊I don’t
> think there needs to be a canonical form for a scene built
> from json, like for x3d xml and x3d Classic. I think it is
> more appropriate to think of the Json as imported into or from
> the scene and integrated into the scenegraph to be accessible
> by SAI using the existing SAI with the canonical user code in
> XML or Classic (same interfaces for both).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 30, 2021 3:52 PM
> *To: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>; Brutzman,
> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
> 1. Is there a modeling language which encompasses everything
> we want to do with schemas and semantics?
>
> We have a modeling language that encompasses objects and
> object interactions in real time with specific control of the
> time. At the most abstract is it metaontologies connected to
> metadata connecting to real and virtual objects with
> interactive event processing?
>
> 2. textual SysML
>
> Is any of this usable in x3d? Ports, parts, and connectors to
> start. If it works then writing this language could be a guide
> to showing flows and interactions in simulations and realtime?
>
> For me, the JSON should be standardized when it can be clearly
> shown to be an accurate set of rules when transcoding between
> the XML, the Classic, and the JSON, given the idea that the
> XML is the defining schema. That is, for a given set of data,
> equivalent results can be produced to and from equivalent data
> in other standard forms.
>
> Now, for the SAI, are we past just system of defining and
> validating syntax and data structures for textual
> x3dscenegraphs and now are looking for connects between these
> great achievements and some way to abstractly define and
> validate event processing by the scene object and internal and
> external objects composing the scene from internal and
> external events? Then not only can be validate the user code
> but also validate event processing without actually having to
> run the thing.
>
> That is where the sysML comes in, maybe, is laying out the
> hierarchy and structures of the processes and flows in a
> project. Like showing that these two things are things and
> when this thing is started, then this other thing also should
> start, and if one takes too long then this should happen. I
> think the x3d scengraph can precisely document timing and
> event flows that the user has defined, so a competent x3d
> authoring system should be able to validate the syntax and
> structures and event flows and timing within the scenegraph
> at any operating point.
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Friday, October 29, 2021 3:18 PM
> *To: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>;
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
> Note that encodings, bindings and schemas are different
> things, except that bindings are starting to look a lot like
> encodings now. JSON schema has not yet achieved
> standardization, we are using draft 2020-12, and it looks a
> bit like the JSON schema crew are having a bit of an issue
> getting a standards body to endorse it. Since both glTF and
> X3D could make use of a JSON schema standard, I recommend that
> either Khronos and/or Web3d consortium suggest a standards
> body to the JSON schema folks. Something like ECMA seems like
> a natural fit.
>
> Note that X3D JSON schema depends on JSON schema for vocabulary.
>
> In the early days of X3DJSON I looked for something that would
> convert XML schema to JSON schema, but it looked like any tool
> were were going to use would not match what we were creating
> with X3D JSON. I don’t know if there’s sufficient umph in
> XMLSpy to do it, but we might consider a post-processing tool.
>
> I may still have code around that converts xsd to owl to vowl
> if anyone is interested.
>
> Another place we might place effort is a validating API for
> X3D JSON. I view that as a valuable task, but I don’t have
> the personal passion or brainpower to push it through. First
> things first. You probably shouldn’t write parser without a
> specification.
>
> This is pretty much the 5th JSON schema draft we’ve developed
> for, not counting all the X3D versions.
>
> We have X3DJSONLD deployed in 2 browsers and on sourceforge.
> Does anyone want to discuss SAI for building a scenegraph from
> X3DJSON? What approaches are out there?
>
> What’s worrying me is the lack of expressively in X3DUOM
> compared to other schemas (geoSystem, oneOf). Perhaps we
> should convert to a textual SysML? Is there a modeling
> language which encompasses everything we want to do with
> schemas and semantics?
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:10 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
> <brutzman at nps.edu> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Joe. The USE pattern we were working on in the X3D
> JSON Schema was common to all nodes, not just HAnim
> nodes. So no change of functionality expected.
>
> We are always striving for consistent expressive power for
> all the different language bindings and file encodings.
>
> We have 3950 X3D Examples to test. More are always
> welcome for the archives if you think that further
> coverage is needed of some capability.
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
> USA +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics
> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
> *From: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 24, 2021 5:12 PM
> *To: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>; Brutzman,
> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc: *X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)
> <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
> Hi John, Getting this to work will help. Are you looking
> for examples to validate, beginning with a .x3d file?
>
> If I can include USE in the HanimDisplacer pt. then I can
> include USE as Interpolator key and value fields(?)
>
> Including a USE in any of the HAnim… nodes Joints,
> Segments, Sites is not going to work unless, well, I can’t
> really see how it would work in a ‘standard’ humanoid.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 24, 2021 11:44 AM
> *To: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc: *X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)
> <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
> Don, schema is here, python seems to be working with added
> metaschema checks.
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/tree/master/src/main/schema
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcoderextreme%2FX3DJSONLD%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fsrc%2Fmain%2Fschema&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C51fbb182092b4d5bb02c08d9974c199c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637707175517256956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZcklHNEBEtinlpnaTacqhx6dQUY2X0MYdh7vhMIRo1M%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Next on agenda is bpy to JSON conversion, possibly with
> added GUI/X3D conversion tool.
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 18, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don)
> (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> John and I reviewed his latest schema today and
> discussed various design considerations.
>
> His latest version, generated by a Python program
> reading X3DUOM, is found as follows:
>
> 1. https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/schema/x3d-4.0-JSONSchema.json
>
> Looking at the result in Firefox was helpful because
> that has a great way to look at JSON which allowed us
> to iconize/expand (fold/unfold) as needed. Excerpt
> follows.
>
> The result looks great. One refinement John will
> handle: for nodes with a USE field, no -children nodes
> are permitted.
>
> Once he has the next version, I will check it into the
> specifications directory (next to X3D XML Schema and
> XML DOCTYPE).
>
> At that point we are ready to begin further validation
> efforts using multivarious tools against the many X3D
> examples in JSON, such as
>
> 2. https://savage.nps.edu/Savage/GroundVehicles/Jeep/Jeep.json
>
> Testing without regex patterns is good for now. A
> prior version had acceptable regex, so that appears to
> be do-able.
>
> Having fun with X3D JSON! 8)
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
> USA +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
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