[x3d-public] Production HAnim X3D JSON seems to still work
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Nov 1 16:04:58 PDT 2021
I'm not really seeing glTF being exported as X3D by me. X3DJSONLD.js may
do it, IDK--try it on my website. I think Michalis is working on
something, and one could try with Blender.
I'm not really a python programmer, and would tend to dump the .blend
file as .json (using bpy of course), then translate to XML.
John
On 11/1/21 17:51, John Carlson wrote:
>
> I'm getting super tired of this. Of course, I already had a working
> .x3d example:
>
> https://coderextreme.net/X3DJSONLD/src/main/html/x3djoeandjin.html
>
> I got the LOA4 diamonds working in FreeWRL. Doesn't work in view3dscene.
>
> What exactly did you want? A VRML validator?
>
> John
>
> On 11/1/21 17:45, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>>
>> This is fun and innovative and proves depth of x3d but not exactly
>> what I really would like to see. Have the scene defined by and .x3d
>> file. Then, for example, import the skeleton or geometries using json
>> files, then serialize to x3d xml canonical. I think you have pretty
>> much proven that json can have capabilities to serve as an encoding
>> for x3d, but I don’t think json needs to be promoted as a prime
>> transport syntax, like xml and Classic. More like gltf might serve
>> for certain common components, mainly as a transport scheme that
>> aligns with typical industry data packages.
>>
>> Thanks for all,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Monday, November 1, 2021 1:38 PM
>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>; Brutzman,
>> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org;
>> hanim at web3d.org
>> *Subject: *Production HAnim X3D JSON seems to still work
>>
>> I don't have any checked in code working, but the last production
>> release seems to work:
>>
>> https://coderextreme.net/X3DJSONLD/src/main/html/joeandjin.html
>>
>> So if you have pressing work, I can get you a copy of the website.
>>
>> Sorry, I don't have releases, I got caught with Ajv not working on
>> draft 2020-12. See attached image for production website.
>>
>> This is with X3DOM and X_ITE.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 11/1/21 12:36, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>>
>> 1. get HAnim working
>>
>> Fine, how about looking at the joekick model? Or, the LOA4 in the
>> current spec, Annex A
>>
>> 1.JSON is loaded through a URL on the web page.
>>
>> The encoding is not the issue since a typical scene may consume
>> x3d xml x3dclassic, strings, binaries, compressed, encrypted,
>> with standard and custom subtypes. This point is, _/if/_ the
>> tool that creates and runs the x3d scene can produce the x3d text
>> user code in canonical form, then it has to be xml or classic,
>> right. And, ecma or java. The tool can export code or data
>> however it wants including all or parts of its internal forms,
>> but if the current user asks for canonical form or viewsource of
>> an x3d scene, then the text must be 19776-n and 19977-n and I
>> think would actually require the xml in order to get direct
>> authortime validation.
>>
>> All Standards | Web3D Consortium
>> <https://www.web3d.org/standards/all>
>>
>> I sent this to hanim because we are looking at the hanim models
>> in the archive. The quick way to start with hanim is to pick an
>> loa4 because joints not animated are ignored.
>>
>> All Good,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 31, 2021 10:41 PM
>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>; Brutzman,
>> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>>
>> Joe, there are some ways of loading JSON through the runtime in
>> X3DOM (which uses JSONParser.js), but typically, JSON is loaded
>> through a URL on the web page. I don't want to overburden my
>> customers by forcing them to drop into JavaScript. There's also
>> a different interface for X_ITE as well, and also one can load
>> JSON through a URL on the web page.
>>
>> I think there may still be some issues with HAnim, which need to
>> be addressed (skeleton field). I will work with you to get HAnim
>> working with X3DOM and X_ITE. I have many, may issues with Java
>> code generated from JSON in X3DJSONLD package. Fixing those may
>> help or hinder us from accomplishing our goals.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 10/31/21 20:45, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone want to discuss SAI for building a scenegraph
>> from X3DJSON? What approaches are out there?
>>
>> Just wondering, or waking up, why would there be a special
>> SAI for use with json? All I thought I needed was a way to
>> reliably import/export nodes and parameters ilnto a standard
>> scenegraph using standard SAI interfaces.
>>
>> Sure, using external programming interfaces to build a scene
>> by authoring or importing nodes and statements and structures
>> is possible, but regardless the scenegraph is built from
>> nodes and statements that may be emitted from and external
>> and internal scripts activated when the scene is initialized
>> using the spec SAI.
>>
>> At this point I still think of the json as a way to store
>> some data and some organized way for import into the x3d
>> scenegraph using the spec interfaces for external and
>> external programming. Bite my lip, but why think of a
>> scenegraph built entirely for json? How can I say no way, too
>> verbose😊I don’t think there needs to be a canonical form for
>> a scene built from json, like for x3d xml and x3d Classic. I
>> think it is more appropriate to think of the Json as imported
>> into or from the scene and integrated into the scenegraph to
>> be accessible by SAI using the existing SAI with the
>> canonical user code in XML or Classic (same interfaces for both).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> *From: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 30, 2021 3:52 PM
>> *To: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>; Brutzman,
>> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>;
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>>
>> 1. Is there a modeling language which encompasses everything
>> we want to do with schemas and semantics?
>>
>> We have a modeling language that encompasses objects and
>> object interactions in real time with specific control of the
>> time. At the most abstract is it metaontologies connected to
>> metadata connecting to real and virtual objects with
>> interactive event processing?
>>
>> 2. textual SysML
>>
>> Is any of this usable in x3d? Ports, parts, and connectors to
>> start. If it works then writing this language could be a
>> guide to showing flows and interactions in simulations and
>> realtime?
>>
>> For me, the JSON should be standardized when it can be
>> clearly shown to be an accurate set of rules when transcoding
>> between the XML, the Classic, and the JSON, given the idea
>> that the XML is the defining schema. That is, for a given set
>> of data, equivalent results can be produced to and from
>> equivalent data in other standard forms.
>>
>> Now, for the SAI, are we past just system of defining and
>> validating syntax and data structures for textual
>> x3dscenegraphs and now are looking for connects between these
>> great achievements and some way to abstractly define and
>> validate event processing by the scene object and internal
>> and external objects composing the scene from internal and
>> external events? Then not only can be validate the user code
>> but also validate event processing without actually having to
>> run the thing.
>>
>> That is where the sysML comes in, maybe, is laying out the
>> hierarchy and structures of the processes and flows in a
>> project. Like showing that these two things are things and
>> when this thing is started, then this other thing also should
>> start, and if one takes too long then this should happen. I
>> think the x3d scengraph can precisely document timing and
>> event flows that the user has defined, so a competent x3d
>> authoring system should be able to validate the syntax and
>> structures and event flows and timing within the scenegraph
>> at any operating point.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Friday, October 29, 2021 3:18 PM
>> *To: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>;
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>>
>> Note that encodings, bindings and schemas are different
>> things, except that bindings are starting to look a lot like
>> encodings now. JSON schema has not yet achieved
>> standardization, we are using draft 2020-12, and it looks a
>> bit like the JSON schema crew are having a bit of an issue
>> getting a standards body to endorse it. Since both glTF and
>> X3D could make use of a JSON schema standard, I recommend
>> that either Khronos and/or Web3d consortium suggest a
>> standards body to the JSON schema folks. Something like ECMA
>> seems like a natural fit.
>>
>> Note that X3D JSON schema depends on JSON schema for vocabulary.
>>
>> In the early days of X3DJSON I looked for something that
>> would convert XML schema to JSON schema, but it looked like
>> any tool were were going to use would not match what we were
>> creating with X3D JSON. I don’t know if there’s sufficient
>> umph in XMLSpy to do it, but we might consider a
>> post-processing tool.
>>
>> I may still have code around that converts xsd to owl to vowl
>> if anyone is interested.
>>
>> Another place we might place effort is a validating API for
>> X3D JSON. I view that as a valuable task, but I don’t have
>> the personal passion or brainpower to push it through.
>> First things first. You probably shouldn’t write parser
>> without a specification.
>>
>> This is pretty much the 5th JSON schema draft we’ve developed
>> for, not counting all the X3D versions.
>>
>> We have X3DJSONLD deployed in 2 browsers and on sourceforge.
>> Does anyone want to discuss SAI for building a scenegraph
>> from X3DJSON? What approaches are out there?
>>
>> What’s worrying me is the lack of expressively in X3DUOM
>> compared to other schemas (geoSystem, oneOf). Perhaps we
>> should convert to a textual SysML? Is there a modeling
>> language which encompasses everything we want to do with
>> schemas and semantics?
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:10 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>> <brutzman at nps.edu> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Joe. The USE pattern we were working on in the X3D
>> JSON Schema was common to all nodes, not just HAnim
>> nodes. So no change of functionality expected.
>>
>> We are always striving for consistent expressive power
>> for all the different language bindings and file encodings.
>>
>> We have 3950 X3D Examples to test. More are always
>> welcome for the archives if you think that further
>> coverage is needed of some capability.
>>
>> all the best, Don
>> --
>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
>> USA +1.831.656.2149
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics
>> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>> *From: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 24, 2021 5:12 PM
>> *To: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>; Brutzman,
>> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>> *Cc: *X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)
>> <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *RE: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>>
>> Hi John, Getting this to work will help. Are you looking
>> for examples to validate, beginning with a .x3d file?
>>
>> If I can include USE in the HanimDisplacer pt. then I can
>> include USE as Interpolator key and value fields(?)
>>
>> Including a USE in any of the HAnim… nodes Joints,
>> Segments, Sites is not going to work unless, well, I
>> can’t really see how it would work in a ‘standard’ humanoid.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 24, 2021 11:44 AM
>> *To: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>> *Cc: *X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)
>> <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>>
>> Don, schema is here, python seems to be working with
>> added metaschema checks.
>>
>> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/tree/master/src/main/schema
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcoderextreme%2FX3DJSONLD%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fsrc%2Fmain%2Fschema&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C51fbb182092b4d5bb02c08d9974c199c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637707175517256956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZcklHNEBEtinlpnaTacqhx6dQUY2X0MYdh7vhMIRo1M%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Next on agenda is bpy to JSON conversion, possibly with
>> added GUI/X3D conversion tool.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don)
>> (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> John and I reviewed his latest schema today and
>> discussed various design considerations.
>>
>> His latest version, generated by a Python program
>> reading X3DUOM, is found as follows:
>>
>> 1. https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/schema/x3d-4.0-JSONSchema.json
>>
>> Looking at the result in Firefox was helpful because
>> that has a great way to look at JSON which allowed us
>> to iconize/expand (fold/unfold) as needed. Excerpt
>> follows.
>>
>> The result looks great. One refinement John will
>> handle: for nodes with a USE field, no -children
>> nodes are permitted.
>>
>> Once he has the next version, I will check it into
>> the specifications directory (next to X3D XML Schema
>> and XML DOCTYPE).
>>
>> At that point we are ready to begin further
>> validation efforts using multivarious tools against
>> the many X3D examples in JSON, such as
>>
>> 2. https://savage.nps.edu/Savage/GroundVehicles/Jeep/Jeep.json
>>
>> Testing without regex patterns is good for now. A
>> prior version had acceptable regex, so that appears
>> to be do-able.
>>
>> Having fun with X3D JSON! 8)
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
>> USA +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
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