[x3d-public] xml:lang language identification

Jakub Flotyński flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl
Tue Nov 23 08:59:44 PST 2021


Hi All,

we had a short discussion with Don about the transformation of different 
XMP nodes and attributes to RDF. A general idea is to have an overview 
of the XMP specification available at:

https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/xmp/pdfs/XMP%20SDK%20Release%20cc-2016-08/XMPSpecificationPart1.pdf

and determine groups of XMP nodes and attributes that would require 
different transformation to RDF nodes and attributes. In such a case, we 
could have a pretty uniform approach to various metadata entities, while 
maintaining possibility to extend the transformation with new nodes and 
attributes.

Best regards
Jakub


W dniu 19.11.2021 o 11:03, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) pisze:
>
> We had a useful discussion about xml:lang in Thursday weekly CAD DPS 
> call, had similar thinking going on.
>
> I will be confirming with Jakub next week (using our XMP test model) 
> whether  <MetatadaString name=”xml:lang” value=”EN”/> is always 
> preferable to attribute xml:lang=’EN’ because it is portable across 
> all varieties of X3D.
>
> Whether or not to include attribute xml:lang=’EN’ in DOCTYPE/Schema: 
> either add it everywhere since it is legal XML, or else not at all so 
> that validation warnings are indeed thrown (since it is likely not the 
> recommended approach).
>
> all the best, Don
>
> -- 
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https:// 
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 17, 2021 5:58 PM
> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc:* vmarchetti at kshell.com; X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>; Jakub 
> Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language identification
>
> I suggest getting xml:lang into X3DUOM before JSON Schema, but we can 
> do some hard coding into the schema generator if pretesting is 
> desired.   An example JSON schema snippet would be required.
>
> Also consider “subclassing” xml:lang for our own purposes, including 
> supporting locales in MFStrings perhaps.
>
> I think full testing of existing JSON schema in python,Java, and 
> JavaScript would be desired before proceeding.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>     On Nov 17, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>     <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>     
>
>     Thanks for review comments.
>
>     I agree that using MetadataString for xml:lang definitions is a
>     good approach for portable X3D mappings within MetadataSet
>     collections. Indeed that was the original approach we tried in the
>     XMP mapping.  Further scrutiny will be needed to see if it can
>     support multiple xml:lang definitions for a given value, that
>     might be a separate design pattern. Jakub and I will continue to
>     look closely at this.
>
>     Meanwhile, the xml:lang attribute is allowed by XML.  Thus am
>     still looking to add it to X3D XML Schema and DOCTYPE (and
>     possibly X3D JSON schema) as an attribute allowed during XML
>     validation, at least for the handful of X3D use cases where it
>     might make sense.  Flagging presence of xml:lang values as
>     erroneous would be a “false negative,” meaning an incorrect error
>     diagnostic.
>
>     all the best, Don
>
>     -- 
>
>     Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
>
>     Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   
>     +1.831.656.2149
>
>     X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
>     faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>     *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> *On Behalf Of
>     *John Carlson
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 17, 2021 6:53 AM
>     *To:* vmarchetti at kshell.com
>     *Cc:* X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language identification
>
>     Thanks, Vince.   That’s pretty much what I wanted to say.  I don’t
>     know if schemas can apply xml:lang to an attribute in all XML
>     documents guided by the schema.   I don’t think that would make
>     sense.   I am not arguing a position, because I have not studied.
>
>     I’ve had problems with namespaced attribute names in the past.   I
>     suggest we go through a thorough test after any updates to X3DUOM.
>
>     John
>
>     Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>         On Nov 16, 2021, at 6:24 PM, vmarchetti at kshell.com wrote:
>
>         
>
>
>
>
>             On Nov 16, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>             <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>             XML allows identification of language via the reserved
>             xml:lang attribute on any attribute.
>
>               * XML Recommendation, fifth edition, W3C, section2.12
>                 Language Identification
>               * https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-lang-tag
>                 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FREC-xml%2F%23sec-lang-tag&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cf00b9ee0286d48ac185b08d9aa36d5e5%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637727974775285410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=5LMyZFoPQ4PUc356h2V2a0%2BSF2bH2ZiYrcsBz5wCOI4%3D&reserved=0>
>
>             and
>
>               * W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) 1.1 Part 2:
>                 Datatypes, W3C Recommendation 5 April 2012 section
>                 3.4.3 language
>               * https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#language
>                 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fxmlschema11-2%2F%23language&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cf00b9ee0286d48ac185b08d9aa36d5e5%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637727974775285410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=hgGRY7kcWRLqBp0dH%2FjaABaGMZoC%2B8kHxdHP3cxUnoo%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         These excerpts from the XML documents assert that the xml:lang
>         attribute is not as granular as applying to individual
>         attributes, but applies at
>
>         the XML element level, and so to all the attributes and
>         subelements , with some clear rules for overriding the
>         xml:lang attribute in sub-elements.
>
>         With that in mind, I think that the function of the xml:lang
>         attribute can, in the X3D abstract specification, be performed
>         by a MetadataString node which can be applied to any X3D node,
>         including
>
>         other Metadata nodes. The advantage of this approach would be
>         that the language attribution can be readily transferred
>         between different encodings of the same X3D content.
>
>
>
>
>             Today while working on XMP metadata transcription from
>             RDF/XML (or TTL) form into X3D/XML form, Jakub and I found
>             that we needed to utilize xml:lang attribute for lossless
>             two-way conversion.
>
>             I can think of the following X3D elements that might need
>             to indicate which identification of human language might
>             be appropriate:
>
>               * Text node (corresponding to ‘string’ field)
>               * MetadataString
>               * <field> and <fieldValue> declarations, if type is
>                 SFString/MFString
>
>             Conceivably we might also permit this whenever a
>             description field is present also (Viewpoint, sensors, etc.).
>
>             Not looking to change X3D expressive power but think that
>             xml:lang information ought to be permissible in X3D XML
>             encoding since it is an allowed part of XML.
>
>             Thus am planning to add xml:lang as indicated above in the
>             X3D XML Schema and X3D XML DOCTYPE to avoid incorrect,
>             misleading validation errors.
>
>             Any other considerations appropriate?  Will enter Mantis
>             issue when ready to proceed.  All comments welcome.
>
>             all the best, Don
>
>             --
>
>             Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>             brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>
>             Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
>             USA    +1.831.656.2149
>
>             X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>             https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>             <http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman>
>
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-- 
dr inż. Jakub Flotyński, prof. UEP
Katedra Technologii Informacyjnych
Uniwersytet Ekonomiczny w Poznaniu

Department of Information Technology
Poznań University of Economics and Business
al. Niepodległości 10, 61-875 Poznań
tel./fax: (+48)(61)639-2758
e-mail:flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl
http://www.kti.ue.poznan.pl/flotynski


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