[x3d-public] ProtoBody completeness in nested Protos
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Mon Apr 25 15:01:34 PDT 2022
http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/tests/protos/CircleFish.jpg
http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/tests/protos/Proto_nested.jpg
http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/tests/protos/Proto_nested.x3d
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 1:10 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Doug,
>
> Thank you for your response.
>
> > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 07:09:14 -0600
> > From: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
> >
> > freewrl loads extern proto scenes as whole scene files, but as 'dead'
> > scenery like a library file: in binary form, ready to binary deep copy
> > parts to live scenery, but node initialization functions not yet
> > called, and not rendered. Subsequent # references to the same scene file
> > use the same loaded library scene. So any ProtoDeclares outside the
> > ProtoBody would be resolved.
>
> I think the issue in the CircleFishLod prototype is not directly
> related to extern proto use, but only to how the local ProtoDeclare
> definition needs to reach into the surrounding Scene. It sounds like
> freewrl allows for that mixing of Execution Contexts, assuming that
> the CircleFishLod proto works in freewrl.
>
> A stress test example would be a Scene which has two Protos, A and B.
>
> A is a simple Proto with the name "Joe". The scene uses it in an instance
> later.
>
> B is a nested Proto which internally uses another Proto. This internal
> Proto is also named "Joe" and has both a ProtoDeclare and instances
> within B. The scene then uses B in an instance later.
>
> How should a browser resolve which ProtoDeclaration to use for the
> internal ProtoInstance "Joe" ? Which one would freewrl choose ? The
> first one it finds ?
>
> Perhaps it is time to draft such a test.
>
> Thanks, Andreas
>
> PS: rough draft
>
> <ProtoDeclare name='Joe'>
> <ProtoBody red sphere />
> </ProtoDeclare>
>
> <ProtoDeclare name='nestedBox'>
> <ProtoBody>
> <ProtoDeclare name='Joe'>
> <ProtoBody blue box />
> </ProtoDeclare>
> <ProtoInstance name='Joe' />
> </ProtoBody>
> </ProtoDeclare>
>
> <ProtoInstance name='Joe' />
> <ProtoInstance name='nested' />
>
> Should display a red sphere and blue box.
>
> > -Doug
> > PS this relates to:
> >
> > PROTOTYPE STYLE IMPORTS
> >
> > I had mentioned a prototype style import for gltf use:
> >
> > Shape { url=?library.gltf#shapeName? }
> >
> > Similar to how we load extern protos as a whole ?dead? scene, and then do
> > binary deep copies where used in the live scene to make live.
> >
> > But interestingly, the same goes for x3d scenery ? don?t need glTF, don?t
> > need extern protos in library scene, don?t need Inline or IMPORT.
> >
> > So the concept could be tested first with x3d scenery.
> >
> > Shape { url=?library.x3dv#shapeName }
> >
> > And then extended to gltf.
> >
> > /PROTOTYPE STYLE IMPORTS
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 10:43 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> > brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Actually please look a little more closely at that (admittedly tricky)
> > > example.
> > >
> > > * CircleFish is an ExternProto, separately defined in another file
> > > * CircleFishLod is a ProtoDeclare defined in that first file,
> > > CircleFishLodPrototype.x3d
> > > * CircleFishLod ProtoBody contains two ProtoInstance copies of
> CircleFish
> > > * CircleFishLod ProtoDeclare is then followed by a CircleFishLod
> > > ProtoInstance (again in CircleFishLodPrototype.x3d)
> > >
> > > So I would expect an X3D Browser to
> > >
> > > a. load ExternProtoDeclare CircleFish
> > > b. build ProtoDeclare CircleFishLod
> > > c. create inner ProtoInstance CircleFish for use
> > > d. create outer ProtoInstance CircleFishLod
> > >
> > > Order of steps might vary a bit, but those are the dependencies. Good
> luck
> > > sir.
> > >
> > > all the best, Don
> > > --
> > > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> > > brutzman at nps.edu
> > > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> > > +1.831.656.2149
> > > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> > > faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of Andreas
> > > Plesch
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2022 9:08 PM
> > > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> > > Subject: [x3d-public] ProtoBody completeness in nested Protos
> > >
> > > ProtoDeclarations may use ProtoInstances of other Protos inside their
> > > ProtoBody definitions.
> > >
> > > For example, the CircleFishLod proto here:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fx3dgraphic
> > > s.com
> > > %2Fexamples%2FX3dForWebAuthors%2FKelpForestExhibit%2FCircleFishLodProto
> > > typeIndex.html&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu
> > > %7C0b4a867ba9874e371f9b0
> > >
> > >
> 8da267152fa%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637864565880708349%
> > >
> > >
> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi
> > >
> > >
> LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=upr4eckI8axT7MO5fAUvAWfyBzUJfhTwqcp
> > > BuH7tZjc%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > uses ProtoInstances of the CircleFish proto.
> > >
> > > A more extreme case of nesting is:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Miscellaneous/PRO
> > > TO/fivedeepnestingIndex.html
> > > <
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Miscellaneous/PROTO/fivedeepnestingIndex.html
> >
> > >
> > > where Proto1 uses ProtoInstance of Proto2 inside its ProtoBody. Proto2
> > > itself uses a ProtoInstance of Proto3 inside its ProtoBody. And so on
> to
> > > five levels deep.
> > >
> > > The second example with the deep nesting currently works with x3dom
> but the
> > > seemingly simpler CircleFishLod proto does not.
> > >
> > > The reason is that x3dom expects the complete definition of a proto to
> be
> > > contained in its ProtoBody. However, The CircleFishLod proto only
> contains
> > > the CircleFish ProtoInstances in the body but not the associated
> CircleFish
> > > ProtoDeclaration which for some reason occurs outside the CircleFishLod
> > > ProtoBody (and outside the CircleFishLod ProtoDeclaration).
> > >
> > > Expecting the ProtoBody to be complete and self-contained seems rather
> > > natural. Is x3dom too strict in this regard, or is there an oversight
> in
> > > the
> > > example ? There is not much guidance in the spec., if any.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Andreas
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andreas Plesch
> > > Waltham, MA 02453
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > x3d-public mailing list
> > > x3d-public at web3d.org
> > > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > x3d-public mailing list
> > > x3d-public at web3d.org
> > > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> > >
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:14:25 +0000
> > From: "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <brutzman at nps.edu>
> > To: Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "x3d at web3d.org" <x3d at web3d.org>, Spec Feedback
> > <spec-comment at web3d.org>, "X3D Public Mailing List
> > (x3d-public at web3d.org)" <x3d-public at web3d.org>, "Brutzman,
> Donald
> > (Don) (CIV)" <brutzman at nps.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D
> > Architecture - V4.0: component support needed for glTF inline
> loading
> > conversion
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> BY3PR13MB48844D178FEBD3BCA8221B51C4F89 at BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > [cc: x3d-public]
> >
> > Thanks for insightful comment. Happy to modify this statement to list
> all
> > appropriate components, possibly Immersive profile.
> >
> > Michalis, do you have any opinions from writing your glTF->X3D conversion
> > code?
> >
> > It helps to know full coverage. If there is a glTF test file that
> includes
> > all constructs, that would also be helpful to convert and add to our
> > architecture.
> >
> > all the best, Don
> > --
> > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> > faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: x3d <x3d-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of Spec Feedback
> > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 12:47 PM
> > To: x3d at web3d.org
> > Subject: [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0
> >
> > -- Submitter indicates that this comment may be public: *Yes* --
> >
> > Comment on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0
> >
> >
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/component
> > s/networking.html#X3DUrlObject
> >
> > -----------------
> > "Support for loading glTF assets (see 2.[GLTF]) also requires support for
> > Shape component level 2 and Lighting component level 4."
> >
> > Many different data fragments may be contained in the current standard
> gltf
> > asset structure, even animation data, so maybe also more general
> statement?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------
> >
> > Submitted on Thursday, 2022, April 21 - 12:47pm by (Joe D Williams )
> > IP: 12.206.82.58
> >
> > See: https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/5663
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > x3d mailing list
> > x3d at web3d.org
> > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org
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>
>
> --
> Andreas Plesch
> Waltham, MA 02453
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
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