[x3d-public] X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle Systems component review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?

Thu Feb 17 03:55:23 PST 2022

BTW, I recall that X3dToJson.xslt totally elided my WindParticleSystem.
Don, I recommend running X3dToJson.xslt round-trip against Holger's
models.  I will do that instead of creating examples.

More to come on possibly fixing up X3dToJson.xslt, stylesheets,
serializers, etc.

John

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 5:44 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> I tried for a while to get something working, using FreeWRL. My best
> attempt was a red stationary sphere.  Then I said to myself,
> X_ITE/create3000 must have some examples, and sure enough:
>
>
> https://create3000.github.io/media/examples/ParticleSystems/ParticleSystem/example.html
>
>
> https://github.com/create3000/Library/tree/main/Tests/Components/ParticleSystems/
>
> I will work on an example based on some of these, but I wanted to give
> Holger some credit first!   The first example is pretty awesome!
>
> Enjoy!
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 4:26 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Okay, I'll try writing one!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 3:48 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> John, thanks for looking ahead.  The best way to think through notional
>>> use cases is by, ahem, using them – demonstrating with examples.  We do
>>> need shared example scenes in our archives for this component.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We remain at the editorial stage of final review.  So we are not
>>> re-inventing now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When we can clarify the X3D4 specification, we are doing so.  If our
>>> current final review leads proposals for future X3D4.1 spec, we add them to
>>> Mantis.  Onward we go.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>
>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>
>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 11, 2022 10:55 AM
>>> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>> *Cc:* X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle
>>> Systems component review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be better to offer a transition from enabled to
>>> disabled and back.   But perhaps that’s max speed and min speed?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But I agree that enabled is a good start, and adding a field for full on
>>> and full off with no transition is a good idea.   One might think of scenes
>>> where a door is shut.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m not sure if full on/full off matches physical reality.   I can think
>>> of examples like bombs, volcanoes and dropping things though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A combination of min/max speed and on/off would cover the cases I’m
>>> thinking of.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tweeted:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - X3D meeting minutes 11 FEB 2022: #X3D4 Architecture Particle
>>>    Systems component review.  Community question: is it OK to add 'enabled'
>>>    field to all emitter nodes, providing simpler animation control by authors
>>>    and end users?
>>>    - https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1492205445120815105
>>>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FWeb3DConsortium%2Fstatus%2F1492205445120815105&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cdf587868e4dc45076d8808d9ed8ff681%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637805869539926559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=IyApkG4TB7hbt%2FYIPSGiNjOhs4LpScFDdOr5MDPrrHE%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Request: if anyone has links or screenshots of Particle System models in
>>> X3D4, we are happy to share them publicly. Thanks in advance for all posts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>
>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>
>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 11, 2022 9:28 AM
>>> *To:* X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> *Cc:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>> *Subject:* X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle Systems component
>>> review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attendees: Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.
>>> Regrets: Nicholas Polys, John Carlson.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    1. Completed X3D4 Particle Systems component review.  All Mantis
>>>    issues updated and resolved.  Latest modifications highlighted via CSS with
>>>    corresponding Mantis issues documented using /title/ attributes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - X3D4 Architecture, clause 37 Particle Systems component
>>>    -
>>>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/particleSystems.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> a. Improved issue notes, WindPhysicsModel:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Mantis 464: 40.4.10 WindPhysicsModel - Question on Speed
>>>    - https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=464
>>>    - Related issue: Mantis 768.  Deferred to X3D 4.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Likely pressure equation for future use will be based on difference
>>> between particle speed and wind speed.
>>>
>>> Note that the turbulence definition (regarding variability of wind
>>> direction) also needs improvement. For example, can highly turbulent wind
>>> stop or reverse direction?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> b. New deficiency noted: how do you turn off an emitter node?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No /enabled/ field is present.  Possibly /speed/ might be zero, but then
>>> particle geometry would still be present and perhaps pulsing...  Possibly a
>>> Switch node might hide it, but then the browser writer likely just turns it
>>> off anyway to save computational resources, which is functionally
>>> equivalent to enabled FALSE.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We discussed in some depth… Have raises an issue in Mantis, here posted
>>> publicly.  We seek comment, and decide (hopefully next week) whether it is
>>> something to be accomplished in X3D 4.0 or else deferred to X3D 4.1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Mantis 1380: ability to disable/enable X3DParticleEmitterNode
>>>    - https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
>>>
>>>
>>> Authors are unable to easily turn particle emitter nodes on or off.
>>>
>>> X3DParticleEmitterNode (and implementing nodes) need field:
>>>
>>>    SFBool [in out] enabled TRUE
>>>
>>> Implementation is simple for browsers. This field has no impact on
>>> legacy content.
>>>
>>> Current workarounds:
>>> * Possibly /speed/ might be zero, but then a particle would still be
>>> present and pulsing...
>>> * Possibly a Switch node might hide the emitter, but then the browser
>>> writer likely turns it off anyway to save computational resources, which is
>>> functionally equivalent to enabled FALSE.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of related note: X3DParticlePhysicsModelNode in this component does
>>> include an enabled field, for identical purposes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Vince discussed his Browser Review document noting X3D support, we hope
>>> to look at this draft further next week.
>>>
>>> No member-only information included on this page.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope everybody has another great week.  Have fun with X3D!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>
>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>
>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>
>>>
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