[x3d-public] X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle Systems component review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?

Thu Feb 17 04:26:25 PST 2022

I have given creating an example by hand with text editing some thought,
and I think I would be more productive in something like Blender for
particle systems.

Thoughts?

John

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 5:55 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> BTW, I recall that X3dToJson.xslt totally elided my WindParticleSystem.
> Don, I recommend running X3dToJson.xslt round-trip against Holger's
> models.  I will do that instead of creating examples.
>
> More to come on possibly fixing up X3dToJson.xslt, stylesheets,
> serializers, etc.
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 5:44 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I tried for a while to get something working, using FreeWRL. My best
>> attempt was a red stationary sphere.  Then I said to myself,
>> X_ITE/create3000 must have some examples, and sure enough:
>>
>>
>> https://create3000.github.io/media/examples/ParticleSystems/ParticleSystem/example.html
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/create3000/Library/tree/main/Tests/Components/ParticleSystems/
>>
>> I will work on an example based on some of these, but I wanted to give
>> Holger some credit first!   The first example is pretty awesome!
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 4:26 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, I'll try writing one!
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 3:48 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John, thanks for looking ahead.  The best way to think through notional
>>>> use cases is by, ahem, using them – demonstrating with examples.  We do
>>>> need shared example scenes in our archives for this component.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We remain at the editorial stage of final review.  So we are not
>>>> re-inventing now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When we can clarify the X3D4 specification, we are doing so.  If our
>>>> current final review leads proposals for future X3D4.1 spec, we add them to
>>>> Mantis.  Onward we go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> all the best, Don
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>>
>>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>>
>>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 11, 2022 10:55 AM
>>>> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>>> *Cc:* X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <
>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle
>>>> Systems component review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be better to offer a transition from enabled to
>>>> disabled and back.   But perhaps that’s max speed and min speed?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But I agree that enabled is a good start, and adding a field for full
>>>> on and full off with no transition is a good idea.   One might think of
>>>> scenes where a door is shut.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m not sure if full on/full off matches physical reality.   I can
>>>> think of examples like bombs, volcanoes and dropping things though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A combination of min/max speed and on/off would cover the cases I’m
>>>> thinking of.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>>>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tweeted:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - X3D meeting minutes 11 FEB 2022: #X3D4 Architecture Particle
>>>>    Systems component review.  Community question: is it OK to add 'enabled'
>>>>    field to all emitter nodes, providing simpler animation control by authors
>>>>    and end users?
>>>>    - https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1492205445120815105
>>>>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FWeb3DConsortium%2Fstatus%2F1492205445120815105&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cdf587868e4dc45076d8808d9ed8ff681%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637805869539926559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=IyApkG4TB7hbt%2FYIPSGiNjOhs4LpScFDdOr5MDPrrHE%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Request: if anyone has links or screenshots of Particle System models
>>>> in X3D4, we are happy to share them publicly. Thanks in advance for all
>>>> posts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> all the best, Don
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>>
>>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>>
>>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 11, 2022 9:28 AM
>>>> *To:* X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <
>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>>> *Cc:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle Systems component
>>>> review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Attendees: Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.
>>>> Regrets: Nicholas Polys, John Carlson.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    1. Completed X3D4 Particle Systems component review.  All Mantis
>>>>    issues updated and resolved.  Latest modifications highlighted via CSS with
>>>>    corresponding Mantis issues documented using /title/ attributes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - X3D4 Architecture, clause 37 Particle Systems component
>>>>    -
>>>>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/particleSystems.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> a. Improved issue notes, WindPhysicsModel:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - Mantis 464: 40.4.10 WindPhysicsModel - Question on Speed
>>>>    - https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=464
>>>>    - Related issue: Mantis 768.  Deferred to X3D 4.1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Likely pressure equation for future use will be based on difference
>>>> between particle speed and wind speed.
>>>>
>>>> Note that the turbulence definition (regarding variability of wind
>>>> direction) also needs improvement. For example, can highly turbulent wind
>>>> stop or reverse direction?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> b. New deficiency noted: how do you turn off an emitter node?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No /enabled/ field is present.  Possibly /speed/ might be zero, but
>>>> then particle geometry would still be present and perhaps pulsing...
>>>> Possibly a Switch node might hide it, but then the browser writer likely
>>>> just turns it off anyway to save computational resources, which is
>>>> functionally equivalent to enabled FALSE.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We discussed in some depth… Have raises an issue in Mantis, here posted
>>>> publicly.  We seek comment, and decide (hopefully next week) whether it is
>>>> something to be accomplished in X3D 4.0 or else deferred to X3D 4.1.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - Mantis 1380: ability to disable/enable X3DParticleEmitterNode
>>>>    - https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Authors are unable to easily turn particle emitter nodes on or off.
>>>>
>>>> X3DParticleEmitterNode (and implementing nodes) need field:
>>>>
>>>>    SFBool [in out] enabled TRUE
>>>>
>>>> Implementation is simple for browsers. This field has no impact on
>>>> legacy content.
>>>>
>>>> Current workarounds:
>>>> * Possibly /speed/ might be zero, but then a particle would still be
>>>> present and pulsing...
>>>> * Possibly a Switch node might hide the emitter, but then the browser
>>>> writer likely turns it off anyway to save computational resources, which is
>>>> functionally equivalent to enabled FALSE.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of related note: X3DParticlePhysicsModelNode in this component does
>>>> include an enabled field, for identical purposes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vince discussed his Browser Review document noting X3D support, we hope
>>>> to look at this draft further next week.
>>>>
>>>> No member-only information included on this page.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope everybody has another great week.  Have fun with X3D!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> all the best, Don
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>>
>>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>>
>>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>>
>>>>
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