[x3d-public] X3D working group minutes 21 JAN 2022: Mantis issue resolutions for Text layout and glTF, IMPORT/EXPORT, Projects Wish List, Blender
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
brutzman at nps.edu
Fri Jan 21 09:30:32 PST 2022
Attendees: John Carlson, Vince Marchetti, Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman. Regrets Anita Havele.
Noted spiffy update to Web3D Consortium home page layout - thanks Anita.
* https://www.web3D.org
1. X3D Programming Language bindings for C++/C#. Regarding C++/C#, we discussed how:
1. No C for now.
2. Draft documents are on github but really need review as sensible, do-able in code (repeatable), ready for direct editing updates.
3. Initial testing of Korea codebase on representative X3D example scenes. Resolution of license status would be helpful too.
4. Confirm compatibility with .net approaches, include minimal informative annex on .net (but only if necessary).
5. Once at that threshold of interface maturity, we might autogenerate a second implementation via X3DUOM.
6. Any later additions to X3D4 Architecture 19775-1 or abstract Scene Access Interface (SAI) 19775-2 are easily reconciled later.
7. We need an editor still.
Question: does FreeWRL or Coin3D (both open source codebases) have any C/C++ that can be compared to SAI? Are they similar or different to Korea codebase? Is there somebody out in those arenas interested in participating?
1. Mantis issues for X3D Architecture Specification review. With today's meeting, 255 issues are now down to 175 open issues with no MAJOR issues remaining.
Request review of major omnibus issue by Michalis:
* Mantis 1269 glTF physically based rendering PBR, advanced material textures and lighting
* https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1269
Our assessment is this is nearly complete, EnvironmentLight needs to be confirmed stable, we can reduce this from major (no blockers) and confirm we are on endgame. Since Khronos has formally submitted glTF as Publicly Available Specification (PAS) to ISO, we should be able to confirm that we are fully aligned. Michalis please meet with Dick and Don to sort out Mantis status.
Request review of major issue by Nicholas:
* Mantis 1265: Text size clarification, relative to baseline
* https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1265
Vince posted a test scene and example screenshots. Summary of status can be found on email thread. Apparently 4 players have solved the identified problem satisfactorily.
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2022-January/016561.html
Dick reported how extremely thorough design was the basis of our internationalized text model in the X3D Architecture. We should remain reluctant to change it. The goal is not "pixel perfect" presentation but rather satisfactory presentation.
Nicholas (who has world-class expertise on this topic, see his dissertation) also thinks our basic model is satisfactory. We have many examples but maybe have not identified or consolidated on a smaller set of examples that illustrate what we need.
We are reducing severity from MAJOR to MINOR. Issue 1265 ownership remains assigned to Nicholas.
3. Projects Wish List. https://www.web3d.org/projects/wish-list
1. Add View3Dscene to section 1 to note available as open source, fully implementing glTF.
2. Does X3DOM support ROUTE? Yes. Prototypes? Maybe - interesting recent examples posted. X3D Scripts? No. Hoping Andreas might provide succinct status and where help is useful, we will then discuss further on x3dom-developers list.
3. Crucial issue common to X3DOM, X_ITE, view3DScene: plans for supporting WebXR? This should be elevated as #1 wish list on client side.
4. Tool side: Blender is our top issue. Is a concerted team effort appropriate (or possible)? Perhaps on an issue-by-issue basis? The latest Blender 3.0 import/export has shown good progress is now stable from an X3D perspective (thanks to a fix by Andreas) so working on individual improvements is feasible. One is underway on ImageTexture that is revealing additional bugs... so maybe just encouragement of individuals to solve problems is what we need. We can also elevate how we report progress publicly in order to build confidence. Web3D Consortium members who have stakeholder interest in ought to discuss this closely. Can Blender Foundation, or some set of coders associated with that group working for money, help? How can we get money flowing to professional Blender programmers here?
5. Our Blender project: https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/BlenderX3DSupport
6. Tool side: MeshLab. Next week please, if CRNI can attend that will be great.
7. Don will continue to edit and update the page. This wish list will continue to get reviewed every week.
John asked a question about protos continue on mailing list please. Please look around, a great many prototype examples are online, some with an explanatory book chapter. Also available is a very thorough X3D Validator.
Next week. We will continue our tools focus with MeshLab. All ideas and inputs welcome.
* https://www.meshlab.net
Step by step... Quote from Thanos in movie Avengers Endgame: "Inevitable."
Have fun with X3D! 8)
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:18 PM
To: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Cc: brutzman at nps.edu
Subject: X3D working group agenda 21 JAN 2022: progress, Mantis issue resolution, Projects Wish List, IMPORT/EXPORT
The X3D Working Group meets each Friday at 0800-0900 pacific time. Videoconference Connectivity:
* https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
* https://zoom.us/j/148206572 Password 483805
* https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
All inputs welcome. Agenda follows.
1. Anyone have new project progress to report (with image to share) this week? Outreach is welcome.
1. Excellent visibility of meeting minutes and other progress on Twitter, we will continue.
* https://twitter.com/Web3Dconsortium
1. Dick and I are spec editors steadily fixing issues but making progress too slowly. We request review.
* We started with 250 issues a year ago, we are down to 175. Four months to go...
* The hardest issues are addressed. Only 2 "major" issues remain.
* Issue list attached. Please identify any topic priorities you have.
* Help requested. Special opportunity: editing first-draft spec and implementation testing of X3D C++ C# bindings.
* We will keep going but finishing is not yet in reach... Will we be punting open issues to future X3D4.1 ?
Request review of major issue by Nicholas:
* Mantis 1265: Text size clarification, relative to baseline
* https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1265
Request review of major omnibus issue by Michalis:
* Mantis 1269 glTF physically based rendering PBR, advanced material textures and lighting
* https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1269
1. Projects Wish List update discussion: we will look closely again next week.
* Work with MeshLab and Blender seems especially important.
* Can we add "how to get involved?" to each major item.
* https://www.web3d.org/projects/wish-list
1. Dick and I worked on IMPORT/EXPORT issue today, to good effect
* Mantis 1109: 04.4.6 Import/Export semantics - Need to specify uniqueness of names
* https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1109
* X3D4 Architecture, Networking component, 9.2.5 IMPORT statement
* https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/networking.html#IMPORTStatement
* X3D4 Architecture, Networking component, 9.2.6 IMPORT statement
* https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/networking.html#EXPORTStatement
1. What else?
Membership definitely has value, including visibility into Mantis issue list. Hope you consider the possibilities.
* Join Web3D Consortium
* https://www.web3D.org/join
Have fun with X3D! 8)
9.2.5 IMPORT statement
The IMPORT statement is used within an X3D file to specify nodes, which are defined within Inline files or programmatically created content, that are to be brought into the namespace of the containing file for the purposes of event routing. Once a node is imported, events may be sent to its fields via ROUTEs, or routed from any fields of the node which have output events.
IMPORT statements may appear anywhere in the file and have the following form:
IMPORT <InlineNodeName>.<ExportedNameFromInlinedFile> [ AS <NewLocalNodeName> ]
The IMPORT statement has the following components:
1. The name of the Inline node that contains the node to be imported
2. The name of the node to import
3. An optional name to be that is used as an alias for the imported node within the run-time name scope, to help prevent name clashes within the parent scene containing the IMPORT statement.
The IMPORT statement has the following semantics:
1. Once imported, events may be routed to or from the imported node in exactly the same manner as any node defined with DEF.
2. Nodes imported into an X3D scene using the IMPORT statement may not be instanced via the USE statement.
3. Only nodes that are exported from within the Inline via an EXPORT statement may be imported using a corresponding IMPORT statement.
4. The IMPORT statement can appear wherever a ROUTE statement is allowed, and shall follow the Inline node to which it refers.
The following example illustrates the use of the IMPORT statement (Classic VRML encoding syntax):
DEF I1 Inline {
url "someurl.x3d"
}
. . .
IMPORT I1.rootTransform AS I1Root
DEF PI PositionInterpolator { ... }
ROUTE PI.value_changed TO I1Root.set_translation
In the above example, rootTransform is defined as a Transform node in the file someurl.x3d and exported via an EXPORT statement (see 4.4.6.3 EXPORT semantics<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/concepts.html#EXPORTSemantics>). The optional AS keyword defines an alias for rootTransform so that within the containing scene the node is referenced using the DEF name I1Root. All defined alias AS names shall also meet appropriate uniqueness requirements in the local DEF namespace of the parent scene.
9.2.6 EXPORT statement
The EXPORT statement is used within an X3D file to specify nodes that may be imported into other scenes when Inlining that file. Only named nodes exported with an EXPORT statement are eligible to be imported into another file.
EXPORT statements may appear anywhere in the file and have the following form:
EXPORT <NodeName> [ AS <ExportedNodeName> ]
The EXPORT statement has the following components:
1. The DEF name of the node to be exported
2. An optional name to be that is used as an alias for the exported node when importing it into other files
The EXPORT statement has the following semantics:
1. Once imported into a containing scene, events may be routed to or from an exported node in exactly the same manner as any node defined with DEF.
2. Exported nodes imported into a containing scene may not be instanced via the USE statement.
3. Exportation may not be propagated across multiple files; that is, a node imported into one scene using the IMPORT statement may not then be further exported into another scene using the EXPORT statement.
4. Nodes shall not be exported from the body of a PROTO declaration.
5. The EXPORT statement can appear wherever a ROUTE statement is allowed, and shall be contained within the Inline node to which it refers.
The following example illustrates the use of the EXPORT statement (Classic VRML encoding):
DEF T1 Transform {
...
}
. . .
EXPORT T1 AS rootTransform
In the above example, node T1 is exported for use by other X3D scenes. The optional AS keyword defines the exported name of T1 as rootTransform ( i.e., other scenes may import the node only using the name rootTransform). All defined alias AS names shall also meet appropriate uniqueness requirements in the local DEF namespace of the parent scene.
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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