[x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy

Thu Oct 20 19:21:11 PDT 2022

I was confused and was trying to grasp what Don was saying.

Yes, most of what we need for X3D can be done with <div> elements plus the
right styles.  Just look at how PDFs are converted to HTML.  There’s room
for everyone at the table, given the right constraints.  You can have your
BVH, and I can have my SVG transforms and OGC markers.  I’m guessing
someone will want motion diffusion models.

What kinds of worlds and avatars will be available in 25 years?

How do we defend our Metaverse *before* launching it?   Can we run fuzz
simulations (data synthesis) in sample worlds?   Think of “No Man’s Sky.”
 How do we defend our test suites from being irrelevant?  How might we use
AI diffusion to test our sample worlds?   Can we flag certain misbehaviors
in the Metaverse and ensure someone stays in Metaverse jails?

Can we even imagine what institutions will be in the Metaverse?  Can our
authors and philosophers guide us, or do we need a new breed?

How do we escape the “kill, sell or buy anything that moves” mindset?  How
does coalition, cooperation and collaboration work in the Metaverse?  I
don’t think it will be BVH files.   First off, there needs to be physical
controllers, then prediction and physics.  This is far beyond fixed dance
sequences/captures.
For example, what happens when an avatar is dancing w/ a drink?   Do we
precompute the fluid in the glass?

In leaving, i reemphasize the importance of live integration of motion
capture with existing BVH files.

John

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 1:21 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:

> Hi John.  Good ideas, thanks for sharing them.
>
>
>
> Once again, it appears as if all the capabilities necessary to accomplish
> that are defined in X3D4 with immense sets of BVH captures available out
> there.  Good hunting, sir.
>
>
>
>    - X3D4 Architecture, 26.3.4 HAnimMotion
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion
>
>
>
>    - HAnim 2.0 Part 2:  Humanoid animation (HAnim) motion data animation,
>    4 Concepts
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-2/V2.0/MotionDataAnimation/Concepts.html
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2022 10:46 AM
> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc:* X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>;
> h-anim at web3d.org
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022:
> discuss possible Avatar strategy
>
>
>
> Hmm.  I suggest extending the BVH to include multifigure collaborative
> motions like dancing (think Virginia Reel) and sports.  That is, some kind
> of composed BVH with multiple avatars.
>
>
>
> This may already be done.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:46 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
> X3D Working Group meets weekly for continued advancement of the X3D4
> Specifications.
>
>
>
> ·        Meeting time 09-1000 pacific, each Friday
>
> ·
> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fus02web.zoom.us%2Fj%2F81634670698%3Fpwd%3Da1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cd934066c06b54d9e5f2908dab2c300ef%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638018848839423330%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MW4v64xMIXK24IDZdceGKtDDqgWP60YwubSLqOfSCFw%3D&reserved=0>
>
> ·        https://zoom.us/j/148206572
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2Fj%2F148206572&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cd934066c06b54d9e5f2908dab2c300ef%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638018848839423330%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ioWhHDclKh8aalrR84sI08Iw9SELPg68b7Xo6GMEtFA%3D&reserved=0>
> Password 483805
>
> ·        https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>
>
>
> Here is a “new” proposed strategy, trying to say crisply the many
> essential ideas that are well known already by active participants in the
> X3D community.
>
>
>
>
>
> *(draft)* Avatar Strategy: Open, Interoperable, Personal, Secure
>
>
>
> No standardized definition for “avatars” is provided in X3D4, but…
>
>
>
> ·        Many alternatives are possible, the “X” in “X3D” is Extensible.
> Vive la difference!
>
> ·        X3D includes multiple levels of detail (LOD) if progressive
> avatar fidelity desired, this is essential for hugely scalable worlds.
>
> ·        Most powerful Web3D example design to date:  Silhouette Avatars
> by IVN, https://ivn.net
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fivn.net%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cd934066c06b54d9e5f2908dab2c300ef%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638018848839423330%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CtDmvmFFwBAvZim267Kyo9joM1Ey7g%2BuVb%2F9TgeMhy8%3D&reserved=0>
>
> ·        Metadata for identity, secure digital signature and even
> encryption is possible.
>
> ·        Composing 3D scans and motion-capture (mocap) data for full
> avatar realism remains really interesting!  Interesting progress continues
> on this challenge.
>
>
>
> X3D Working Group intends to demonstrate whatever avatar definitions are
> agreed upon by Metaverse Standards Forum.  We expect to show full matching
> Implementation and Evaluation using X3D, learning further what avatar
> designs work well.
>
>
>
>
>
> Let’s discuss please.  All inputs and discussion welcome.
>
>
>
> Corresponding Web3D member-only draft slideset available at
>
>    - Representing Metaverse Humans with Open Standards
>    - Humanoid Animation (HAnim) and X3D4 ISO Specification Support
>    - Web3D Consortium Communications Team
>    -
>    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13yAhoU9h7Buy5fUjSpPoOHYVJ6dgJDYulDS9Ze8na4M/edit#slide=id.p
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fpresentation%2Fd%2F13yAhoU9h7Buy5fUjSpPoOHYVJ6dgJDYulDS9Ze8na4M%2Fedit%23slide%3Did.p&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cd934066c06b54d9e5f2908dab2c300ef%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638018848839423330%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BCjRn2m6AHyoKAepLl9oYn%2BLOjWDgTmTsCCzbRwIVbw%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Membership has value!
>
>    - Join the Web3D Consortium
>    - The Web3D Consortium is a non-profit group open to industry,
>    academic, government and individual members.
>    - https://www.web3d.org/join
>
>
>
> Have fun with X3D, Human Animation and Avatars!  8)
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
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