[x3d-public] Plans for proceeding with C/C++/C# specification and implementation

Tue Jan 25 15:35:41 PST 2022

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On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:30 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Some nice things which might be in a possible XSLT tool:
>
> * works with concrete examples, from multiple targets to multiple
> sources.  I’m imagining something like XslByDemo (IBM), but separating
> source from target.
>
> * both declarative (recursion) and imperative (loops, conditions)
>
> * documentation of rules in stylesheet easy to extract (meta-XSLT).
>
> * code coverage
>
> * minimal or humble cost
>
>
> I have mostly on used command-line tools for compiling c/c++ on Windows XP
> back around 2001.   I used both gnu and Microsoft command line tools.   I
> have very little experience with Visual Studio or VS Code.
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:59 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My constraints right now are 1) my health, which has been discussed—I
>> definitely have COVID 2) appropriate tools for writing and documenting
>> XSLT.  I don’t think  that vim/nvim is going to cut it, and wife doesn’t
>> want to talk about spending $200 right now.   Recommendations for free or
>> open source software (no spyware or malware please) welcome.   I have not
>> tested any freely available tools for this, I would appreciate
>> recommendations that run on Windows 10.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:34 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Summary.  We plan to proceed carefully with C/C++/C# specification and
>>> implementation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Further assistance will be much appreciated, we are time limited.  There
>>> are major opportunities here for people to learn and contribute.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are extensive notes from our discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Discussion 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dick and I remain blocked by X3D4 architecture document work and  cannot
>>> work on those document, only support.  So we need two individuals: an
>>> editor, and we need an implementor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Carlson might be willing to assist as an implementer for second
>>> implementation (autogenerated from X3DUOM).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We were also wondering if your code can be placed in an open-source
>>> license, perhaps by Web3D Consortium. (Answer yes, that is done)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Whoever helps with code needs to be capable of compiling and testing the
>>> results with our examples.  Neither Dick nor I are capable of spending time
>>> for that.  Without full testing, we cannot be confident that everything is
>>> OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are willing to work with me on XSLT then that is a possible path,
>>> but my time is still highly overcommitted due to emergent responsibilities
>>> at work.  So I would love to proceed with you, but I am really worried that
>>> my duties will not allow us to succeed together.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I recommend that we find one more person to help who is a good C, C++ C#
>>> programmer, then we can carefully proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Web3D rules are clear that we need 2 implementations.  Your existing
>>> codebase can be one implementation, the X3DUOM-generated source can be a
>>> second implementation.  Yes they will probably be very similar, but that
>>> will let us follow the rules.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dick and I can assist anyone who joins in the work, but we do need
>>> another active person to proceed.
>>>
>>> Our rules can be found at      https://www.web3d.org/standards
>>>
>>> Standards Adoption Process
>>> https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For that process, since we are extending existing work, sections 1-4 are
>>> essentially complete.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For Section 5. Create Standard or Extension, we especially need '5.
>>> Identify at least two independent and interoperable implementations (at
>>> least one should be open source)'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Inventory of what is needed next:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> a. Suwon source accessible (preferably under open-source license, such
>>> as Web3D license)
>>>
>>> b. Use X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM) via XSLT to create another
>>> independent codebase (similar to X3DJSAIL, X3DPSAIL, X3D Ontology)
>>>
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html
>>>
>>> c. Create an X3dToCpp.xslt and X3dToCsharp.xslt stylesheets to convert
>>> .x3d models into source code (again similar to Java, Python, Turtle)
>>>
>>> d. When those converters are successfully testing the codebase against
>>> some .x3d models, then we can apply them to all 4000 models in the X3D
>>> Example Archives.  That provides full coverage of correctness.  See any of
>>> the models at
>>>
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Examples
>>>
>>> e. Notice that such testing requires a C/C++/C# expert who can identify
>>> flaws and potential fixes.  (Neither Dick nor I have that expertise)
>>>
>>> f.  Native C/C++/C# Viewers not required to confirm correctness of data
>>> structures when performing conversions correctly…  If someone wants to add
>>> that to the open source, they are welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Discussion 2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MWL says
>>>
>>> -              Her existing C, C++, C## source was already placed under
>>> a Web3D Consortium Open Source license in 2019
>>>
>>> -              She would like to proceed with all three versions for C,
>>> C++, C#
>>>
>>> -              Licenses at
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org
>>>
>>> -              Older versions of Suwon code is already checked in and
>>> can get updated at
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We discussed how
>>>
>>> -             Autogenerated cpp and csharp libraries will go in
>>> following location
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets
>>>
>>> -             Don will discuss with Dick if one hour per week of shared
>>> time is possible… we agreed to try.
>>>
>>> -             Myeong can do much of this work, and might be able to
>>> attract student(s) or another professional to help
>>>
>>> -             Let's meet again in two weeks (perhaps at same time)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Next meeting:
>>>
>>>    - Tuesday       FEB 8, 1300 pacific
>>>    - Wednesday FEB 9, 0600 Korea
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We will use x3d-public mailing list to report periodic progress.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for your patience and your many efforts.  We will keep trying.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>
>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>
>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
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