[x3d-public] Plans for proceeding with C/C++/C# specification and implementation

Tue Jan 25 15:29:23 PST 2022

Some nice things which might be in a possible XSLT tool:

* works with concrete examples, from multiple targets to multiple sources.
I’m imagining something like XslByDemo (IBM), but separating source from
target.

* both declarative (recursion) and imperative (loops, conditions)

* documentation of rules in stylesheet easy to extract (meta-XSLT).

* code coverage

* minimal or humble cost

I have mostly on used command-line tools for compiling c/c++ on Windows XP
back around 2001.   I used both gnu and Microsoft command line tools.   I
have very little experience with Visual Studio or VS Code.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:59 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> My constraints right now are 1) my health, which has been discussed—I
> definitely have COVID 2) appropriate tools for writing and documenting
> XSLT.  I don’t think  that vim/nvim is going to cut it, and wife doesn’t
> want to talk about spending $200 right now.   Recommendations for free or
> open source software (no spyware or malware please) welcome.   I have not
> tested any freely available tools for this, I would appreciate
> recommendations that run on Windows 10.
>
> John
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:34 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>> Summary.  We plan to proceed carefully with C/C++/C# specification and
>> implementation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Further assistance will be much appreciated, we are time limited.  There
>> are major opportunities here for people to learn and contribute.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are extensive notes from our discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Discussion 1.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dick and I remain blocked by X3D4 architecture document work and  cannot
>> work on those document, only support.  So we need two individuals: an
>> editor, and we need an implementor.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Carlson might be willing to assist as an implementer for second
>> implementation (autogenerated from X3DUOM).
>>
>>
>>
>> We were also wondering if your code can be placed in an open-source
>> license, perhaps by Web3D Consortium. (Answer yes, that is done)
>>
>>
>>
>> Whoever helps with code needs to be capable of compiling and testing the
>> results with our examples.  Neither Dick nor I are capable of spending time
>> for that.  Without full testing, we cannot be confident that everything is
>> OK.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are willing to work with me on XSLT then that is a possible path,
>> but my time is still highly overcommitted due to emergent responsibilities
>> at work.  So I would love to proceed with you, but I am really worried that
>> my duties will not allow us to succeed together.
>>
>>
>>
>> I recommend that we find one more person to help who is a good C, C++ C#
>> programmer, then we can carefully proceed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Web3D rules are clear that we need 2 implementations.  Your existing
>> codebase can be one implementation, the X3DUOM-generated source can be a
>> second implementation.  Yes they will probably be very similar, but that
>> will let us follow the rules.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dick and I can assist anyone who joins in the work, but we do need
>> another active person to proceed.
>>
>> Our rules can be found at      https://www.web3d.org/standards
>>
>> Standards Adoption Process
>> https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process
>>
>>
>>
>> For that process, since we are extending existing work, sections 1-4 are
>> essentially complete.
>>
>>
>>
>> For Section 5. Create Standard or Extension, we especially need '5.
>> Identify at least two independent and interoperable implementations (at
>> least one should be open source)'
>>
>>
>>
>> Inventory of what is needed next:
>>
>>
>>
>> a. Suwon source accessible (preferably under open-source license, such as
>> Web3D license)
>>
>> b. Use X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM) via XSLT to create another
>> independent codebase (similar to X3DJSAIL, X3DPSAIL, X3D Ontology)
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html
>>
>> c. Create an X3dToCpp.xslt and X3dToCsharp.xslt stylesheets to convert
>> .x3d models into source code (again similar to Java, Python, Turtle)
>>
>> d. When those converters are successfully testing the codebase against
>> some .x3d models, then we can apply them to all 4000 models in the X3D
>> Example Archives.  That provides full coverage of correctness.  See any of
>> the models at
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Examples
>>
>> e. Notice that such testing requires a C/C++/C# expert who can identify
>> flaws and potential fixes.  (Neither Dick nor I have that expertise)
>>
>> f.  Native C/C++/C# Viewers not required to confirm correctness of data
>> structures when performing conversions correctly…  If someone wants to add
>> that to the open source, they are welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Discussion 2
>>
>>
>>
>> MWL says
>>
>> -              Her existing C, C++, C## source was already placed under a
>> Web3D Consortium Open Source license in 2019
>>
>> -              She would like to proceed with all three versions for C,
>> C++, C#
>>
>> -              Licenses at
>>
>>                https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org
>>
>> -              Older versions of Suwon code is already checked in and can
>> get updated at
>>
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages
>>
>>
>>
>> We discussed how
>>
>> -             Autogenerated cpp and csharp libraries will go in following
>> location
>>
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets
>>
>> -             Don will discuss with Dick if one hour per week of shared
>> time is possible… we agreed to try.
>>
>> -             Myeong can do much of this work, and might be able to
>> attract student(s) or another professional to help
>>
>> -             Let's meet again in two weeks (perhaps at same time)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Next meeting:
>>
>>    - Tuesday       FEB 8, 1300 pacific
>>    - Wednesday FEB 9, 0600 Korea
>>
>>
>>
>> We will use x3d-public mailing list to report periodic progress.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your patience and your many efforts.  We will keep trying.
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
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