[x3d-public] X3D minutes: X3D Graphics Specification Relationships, request review of Integrating X3D and glTF

Fri Aug 5 17:38:12 PDT 2022

How does a web3d member get plugged into multiuser Metaverse standards?
See next section down for my experience.

Welcome to complexity where imperative models can be made declarative and
declarative models can be made imperative.   Future or present SAI?

Here is my understanding.   X3D scenegraph encodings and glTF assets are
both declarative (this used to be called structured mode).   Both have ways
of working with imperative code (this used to be called immediate mode).
SAI application code can be either declarative or imperative or both.   I’m
thinking that I introduced building a imperative  way of using SAI with
X3DJSAIL and Don introduced building a declarative way of using SAI with
X3DJSAIL.

We worked on parallel paths, but I started using declarative programming
after Don proved it out.  Imperative programming is still fully possible,
 AFAIK.

So no one needs to put up their noses and say, “We’re only declarative” or
“We’re only imperative”. Those boats have shipped long ago.

Thanks for listening.    Everyone can have their cake and eat it too.

Of course, each SAI implementation may choose not to implement load/export,
but Don’s and Myeong’s focus on providing XSLT for nearly anything proves
its worth.   I have not been able to produce much XSLT code because I
prefer a more imperative approach.

My work mainly involves JSON loading into DOM documents, which provides a
path back to XML.

Unfinished work is JSON to Python.  I’m hoping we can accomplish a path
from XML or JSON into Python.   Why Python?   Why not?

I do think the target to hit is WASM  (web assembly) for 3D graphics.   I
think the best use of the Metaverse might be virtual travel.

=============================

I worked long hours last week improving my Java lircom project,  which
includes a multiuser 3D authoring tool (which might be useful for building
colorful borg ships), multiuser solitaire and multiuser chat system.   The
goal here is to provide a multiuser messaging protocol below the
application protocols.   Something like JMS would probably be adequate if
JMS systems worked across the internet.

I also have a JavaScript multiuser system that supports a world tag game,
simple card system and chat.   It’s based on socket.io

I am open to someone taking over these projects.   I do need to provide
more documentation.

I know Christoph Valentin is looking for web developers for his multiuser
systems.   Perhaps we should look at that since I think the Metaverse is
supposed to be multiuser?

Indeed, he has lots of comparisons between multiuser systems components
that might be used in the Metaverse.

I am not sure if multiuser is a strength of Web3d (joined any DIS worlds
lately?), but many people are interested multiuser systems.   What
standards body can we pair with who has a multiuser standard at the ISO
level?   Perhaps we should consider just using Jabber/XMPP and things like
libjingle?

Can we or do we want to resurrect Google Wave?

John

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:31 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:

> Attendees: Anita Havele, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman
>
>
>
> We normally meet Fridays 09-1000 pacific.  (Regrets, no meeting next week.)
>
>
>
>    1. *ISO Annual Meeting*.  Dick and Don reviewed almost-complete annual
>    meeting of ISO standards committee SC24.  Our liaison report has been
>    shared with Web3D Consortium members providing detail on all Web3D X3D and
>    HAnim issues.  Once the ISO meeting resolutions are shared and reviewed
>    with members, we’ll be posting the Web3D Liaison report for public
>    awareness.  Summary:  everything we have declared is progressing well.
>
>
>
>    1. *X3D Graphics Specification Relationships*.  We have made some
>    small adjustments to our (very busy!) chart describing all Web3D Consortium
>    standards, and how they relate to other standards.  Updated online at
>
>
>
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.pdf
>
>
>
> Improvements to color legend:
>
>    - Grey, Proposed
>    - Orange, Working draft in progress
>    - Yellow, ISO balloting in progress
>    - White, ISO approved
>
>
>
> Thus three standards are in ballot (X3D 4.0 Architecture, X3D 3.3 SAI
> Bindings for C, C++, C#) and one standard is getting updated (X3D SAI from
> 3.3 to 4.0).
>
>
>
> Of note is that rough-draft notes for (X3D SAI from 3.3 to 4.0) are posted
> as follows.  Next step will be to put HTML versions with editorial markup
> in Web3D Consortium’s github version control.
>
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSaiReviewCommentsJuly2022.reduced.pdf
>
>
>
> As ever, comments welcome.
>
>
>
>    1. *X3D and glTF Comparison*.  Anita is checking our most recent
>    postings that compared glTF and X3D, which led to full support of glTF
>    capabilities in X3D4.
>
>
>
>    - Integrating X3D and glTF: How to Play Together Well on the WWW
>    - Nicholas Polys, Ph.D., October, 2019
>    - https://www.web3d.org/blog-integrating-x3d-and-gltf
>
>
>
> and
>
>    - X3D and glTF Features Comparison, 3 NOV 2017
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3D%20Version%204%20Overview/glTfX3dFeaturesComparison.pdf
>
>
>
> Hoping to confirm that everything there is still correct… changes in X3D4
> likely means that some of these entries need to be updated.
>
>
>
> Review comments and improvements are welcome.
>
>
>
>    1. *Web3D Ecosystem and the Metaverse - SIGGRAPH 2022 BOF*.  An
>    excellent presentation is now available:
>
>
>
>    - Web3D Ecosystem and the Metaverse - SIGGRAPH 2022 BOF, Join the
>    Web3D Consortium for a discussion on how #X3D technology contributes to the
>    Metaverse. From Interactive Real-Time 3D, to Mixed Reality and Humanoid
>    Animation #HAnim for an open Metaverse.
>    - https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1553065575512911876
>    - https://youtu.be/2T8WbIpdIDc
>
>
>
> TODO: post two more videos from SIGGRAPH 2022 BOFs… hopefully next week.
>
>
>
>    1. *Metaverse Standards Forum*.  As a Standards Development
>    Organization (SDO) Web3D Consortium is a founding member of Metaverse
>    Standards Forum.  This work continues to ramp up rapidly, now with 1200
>    members.
>
>
>
>    - Metaverse Standards Forum: Where Leading Standards Organizations and
>    Companies Cooperate to Foster Interoperability Standards for an Open
>    Metaverse
>    - https://metaverse-standards.org
>
>
>
> Web3D Consortium actually has a lot of available technology capabilities
> in this space.  To learn more, please see
>
>
>
>    - “The Metaverse Standards Forum provides a unique opportunity to
>    achieve secure, collaborative (interoperable), durable, and pervasive
>    Mixed-Reality content,” said Nicholas Polys Ph.D., president of the Web3D
>    Consortium.
>    - https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1539412412377333761
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/blog/anitahavele/keys-open-interoperable-metaverse
>
>
>
>    1. *Or else*.  Have fun with X3D!  8)
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
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>
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