[x3d-public] X3D meeting minutes 28 July 2022: X3D4 Scene Access Interface (SAI) review
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
brutzman at nps.edu
Sat Aug 6 17:20:08 PDT 2022
Hi John, thanks for review.
Expect to see little or no "invention" of X3D graphics in the SAI
specifications, as descriptions and recent X3D Graphics Specification
Relationships diagram mosaic shows, the SAI is a set of application
programming interfaces for X3D.
I think you are correct to flag the following two important utility methods
as essential.
We expect to first confirm correct definition of such things during 19775-2
SAI abstract-specification review. Later we will confirm consistent
definition in each of the corresponding SAI-related specifications for
ECMAscript, Java, Python, C, C++, C#.
Step by inexorable step.
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2022 3:27 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; X3D Graphics public
mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D meeting minutes 28 July 2022: X3D4 Scene
Access Interface (SAI) review
Indeed, they are there at least in the JavaScript SAI specification (see
below). Not in the Java SAI specification that I can see. Others may have
better eyes.
String
toVRMLString()
Returns the X3D Classic VRML-encoded string that, if parsed as the value of
an SFNode field, produce this node. If the browser is unable to reproduce
this node, the name of the node followed by the open brace and close brace
shall be returned. Additional information may be included as one or more
Classic VRML comment strings.
String
toXMLString()
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 5:15 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com
<mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com> > wrote:
Now that I reread this a bit, the Jupyter notebook stuff isn't exactly a
live SAI, AFAIK, takes an XML document out of one, non-interactive "SAI" and
puts it in an interactive scene.
While x3d.py and X3DJSAIL show this well, there should be some discussion
whether we want these "document dumps" in a final SAI (are they already
there?).
I'll try to do some reading on my desktop now.
John
On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 3:17 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com
<mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com> > wrote:
I'm not saying this too well. I mean producing XML, JSON or VRML, to use
with browsers.
I believe we have some Jupyter notebooks showing this.
Enjoy!
John
On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 3:01 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com
<mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com> > wrote:
I think there's a potential 3rd use case for SAI, and that's for creating
views of the model hierarchy, for use with X3DOM and X_ITE.
On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 12:19 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
<brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> > wrote:
There was a meeting of X3D Working Group on Friday 29 July 2022 at 09-10
pacific. Connection information and topics follow.
Attendees: Anita Havele, Doug Sanden, Don Brutzman. Prior review and
inputs: Dick Puk. Thanks!
*
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fus02web.z
oom.us%2Fj%2F81634670698%3Fpwd%3Da1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09&data=05%7C
01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740e
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C&sdata=YB3968hxquCUV9JdrBIWfNbWUk7d1dnhpuyVs0d2fuY%3D&reserved=0>
* https://zoom.us/j/148206572
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2
Fj%2F148206572&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da7
2160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637947736251495490%7CUn
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9o%3D&reserved=0> Password 483805
* https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
1. Doug Sanden described a lot of work he has going on with FreeWrl
code review, upgrading for X3D4. Expect to hear more on the mailing list as
he progresses.
* http://freewrl.sourceforge.net
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffreewrl.so
urceforge.net%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208d
a72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637947736251495490%7C
Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=L2KHO09hUTeVk7ZYiCb%2B4nHsXNI6emUA8LT5Uo%
2Fa%2FQs%3D&reserved=0>
2. Web3D 2022 Confirmation (2-4 November 2022, Paris) Call for Papers -
real soon now!
* https://web3d.siggraph.org
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graph.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da721
60a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637947736251495490%7CUnkn
own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC
I6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dZEU8NxG8Hb4vYUiO2NxLMMwJjJc9yefYTj9HuMUSH8%3
D&reserved=0>
The 27th International Conference on 3D Web Technology, sponsored by
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aph.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da72160
a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637947736251495490%7CUnknow
n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ewm0Ncbkfcq%2FHSJSDcca8COBDQ2SW%2Bc7PmhXISWhibE
%3D&reserved=0> ACM SIGGRAPH in cooperation with the
<https://www.web3d.org/> Web3D Consortium, is hosted by
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telec
om-sudparis.eu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208
da72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637947736251495490%7
CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mX6btiTbkpb0EGWDEW6sfxoDHRHWe8cKBHWZWtia
QNI%3D&reserved=0> Telecom SudParis.
Important dates:
* https://web3d.siggraph.org/important-dates
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graph.org%2Fimportant-dates&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c76
48efaad208da72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C6379477362
51495490%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cvFUaRALdpaDQ5SlSmQnGhWCy8pVKr
A0%2Bqyy%2F7JmKCc%3D&reserved=0>
* Saturday 30 July: Papers and Interactive Posters
* Monday August 29: Tutorials, Industrial Use Cases, Workshops,
Competition.
Authors are invited to submit original work presenting fundamental research,
practice and experiments, or novel applications, in all areas of 3D graphics
on the web and related topics therein.
3. SIGGRAPH activities: multiple big events this week!
a. Web3D Ecosystem and the Metaverse - SIGGRAPH 2022 BOF
https://www.web3d.org/news-story/web3d-ecosystem-and-metaverse-siggraph-2022
-bof
https://s2022.siggraph.org/presentation/?id=bof_136
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graph.org%2Fpresentation%2F%3Fid%3Dbof_136%26sess%3Dsess335&data=05%7C01%7Cb
rutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f
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a=WiD0nFw6ORVWapHWFnjkOm7KB7wcVHIGzFI2E4oALCc%3D&reserved=0> &sess=sess335
https://www.web3d.org/event/web3d-bof-siggraph-2022
https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1553065575512911876
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om%2FWeb3DConsortium%2Fstatus%2F1553065575512911876&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%
40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f75789633
78e%7C0%7C0%7C637947736251495490%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jQl6vc
pjHy1V%2F0FLy42nDkYsEHsvovPTcdRZTbRxMxc%3D&reserved=0>
Join the Web3D Consortium for a discussion on how our technology contributes
to the Metaverse. From Interactive Real-Time 3D, to Mixed Reality and
Humanoid Animation (HAnim), everything we do in 3D is significant to an open
Metaverse. See how our members are scaling expertise in 3D, Modeling and
Simulation, Geospatial, Augmented Reality, and Web Audio towards an open,
interoperable Metaverse. Our extensible 3D presentation layer brings 3D
content from different domains from across the WWW into rich, interactive 3D
worlds.
b. ACM SIGGRAPH Cartographic Visualization (Carto) Birds of a Feather
https://s2022.siggraph.org/presentation/?id=bof_101
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2022.sig
graph.org%2Fpresentation%2F%3Fid%3Dbof_101%26sess%3Dsess155&data=05%7C01%7Cb
rutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f
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a=G1GlfzTBdq3vlFTY1I%2BXfeto5ylh4JpHViVGDTB2ZHk%3D&reserved=0> &sess=sess155
The ACM SIGGRAPH Cartographic Visualization (Carto) session explores how
viewpoints and techniques from the computer graphics community can be
effectively applied to cartographic and spatial data sets. Speakers
demonstrate their latest tools and application efforts.
c. Immersive Visualization for Research, Science and Art
https://s2022.siggraph.org/presentation/?id=bof_128
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2022.sig
graph.org%2Fpresentation%2F%3Fid%3Dbof_128%26sess%3Dsess328&data=05%7C01%7Cb
rutzman%40nps.edu%7Cda4f2eea0c7648efaad208da72160a1c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f
7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637947736251495490%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4
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a=tbNrs6efA7Ste0HnzXEXwtbMjhNf2nLjLnhGwNSS0YU%3D&reserved=0> &sess=sess328
Traditionally, this session is on immersive visualization systems for
science and research, scientific visualization information visualization,
art and science. Invited speakers and panel discuss newest initiatives and
developments in visualization space. Presentations included Nicholas Polys
on durability of X3D.
Tomasz Bednarz, NVIDIA and William Sherman, NIST
4. Annual ISO/IEC JTC-1 SC24 meeting - progress report.
Under discussion, for all hours of day/night interspersed over a 4-week
period, are many topics. X3D4, Smart Cities, VR/AR/MAR/XR,
virtual/augmented reality health and safety, more. Next week will see
finalization of committee conclusions and recommendations.
5. X3D4 Scene Access Interface (SAI) Review
Our "specification mosaic" diagram shows how all the many X3D-related
specifications fit together.
* X3D Graphics Standards Relationships
*
https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png
With the X3D4 Draft International Standard (DIS) complete and undergoing
national-body balloting by ISO/IEC, it is time to turn our sights on X3D4
SAI. This document forms the abstract-API reference and common basis for
numerous other X3D APIs including EcmaScript (JavaScript), Java, Python, C,
C#, C++.
* Information technology - Computer graphics, image processing and
environmental data representation - Extensible 3D (X3D) -
* Part 2: Scene access interface (SAI) ISO/IEC 19775-2:2015
* https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-2/V3.3
* X3D is a file format and related access services for describing
interactive 3D objects and worlds. X3D is designed to be used on the
Internet, intranets, and local client systems. X3D is also intended to be a
universal interchange format for integrated 3D graphics and multimedia. X3D
may be used in a variety of application areas such as engineering and
scientific visualization, multimedia presentations, entertainment and
educational titles, web pages, and shared virtual worlds.
* This part of ISO/IEC 19775 defines the scene access interface that
can be used to interact with X3D worlds both from within the worlds or from
external programs.
Based on review/revision of X3D SAI 3.3 in 2015, led by Dick Puk and myself
for Web3D and ISO, this document is pretty mature. I have performed a
careful document review, available at
*
https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSaiReviewCommentsJuly2022.reduced.pd
f (14MB)
Under consideration, of general interest for future discussion: can we help
distinguish between different primary use cases, namely
a. Browser services (the current primary emphasis),
b. Script node source code (sorta implicit), and
c. Simple subset API used for model creation and authoring, no live
browser interactions needed.
If we get clearer about those three use cases, it may help all of our X3D
SAI APIs be clearer and more useful.
Request all interested parties look over this comments review. Next
go-forward step will be putting X3D4 SAI into Github version control for
Web3D Consortium members.
Thanks for all input and participation.
Have fun with finishing Web3D 2022 papers/posters, watching SIGGRAPH videos,
and (deep breath) X3D4 SAI review! 8)
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman <http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman>
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